Curse

Vyral · Sep 14, 2006, 04:16 PM // 16:16

Again, the builds really aren't as important as getting comfortable with the run and the folks you're running with.

The monk build I run is different than Lich's. I tend to run Mo/Me with Mantra of Recall. I bring Orison, Kiss, and Whisper, HP, and Seed. I almost never have energy problems even without Signet. And, for the above poster that commented on monking being stressfull, I actually find the opposite to be true. I actually don't like monking in the 9 man group because its boring. (never Monked in 6 man... but would figure its about the same except in Aspect of Depletion room). Monking in a PuG is indeed stressfull because there's much more disorganization.

Probably one of the biggest tricks to this run is to correctly learn how to 1-tank aggro. Almost everything in the run can be spawned and aggro'd by 1 tank while everyone hangs way back. Once aggro is obtained, then the monks, SS, ele can come forward. With the Tank build I posted in the screenshot, you can stand there without support for a suprisingly long time. Then a simple healing seed will fill you back up to full. When you only have to heal 1 person, monking becomes easy. In several places we actually have our tanks leapfrog each other to increase speed, aggroing the next group while we're finishing off the last one. Because we aggro most things with 1 tank, it is very important for the ele to control themselves. Scattering the beasties with AoE damage can be a huge problem. And scatter can be induced as easily as having a fireball and incendiary bonds go off too close together.

Quote:

Since u do lots of runs, do all of you guys get lots of greens?

Yeah, we've all become fairly wealthy from these runs. With 9 man, its actually somewhat surprising how much you find yourself picking up Green. And when you're running with a group of friends, it doesn't really hurt when you don't get the drop. Plus, there's always 5 chests to pick up--usually junk, but occasionally the drops come.

xtc_blitz · Sep 14, 2006, 05:27 PM // 17:27

Yeah... what Vince said.

Lord Aro · Sep 14, 2006, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by xtc_blitz

If you are going to 9 man the deep, then you need the following professions:

Most of the exp groups I run with usually only use 2 W/A's. It just gives room for more damage. 4 Monks or 3 + 1 Rt is common, though the recent update may hurt spirits a fair amount (shouldn't be too bad). Decreased to a smaller party the normal 1 healer to 2 others works fine. Leaving room for a second nec, ele, or a ranger (easy on the traps, they can break aggro).

I've been wanting to take my E down there as a healing E/Mo but nobody ever wanted me in the group (wonder how much prodigy hurts after the change). Was also thinking a N/R with a pet may be interesting. Portable body generator, profane right next to kanaxai could be mean, health degen always helps, or healing well for the tanks for longer tanking.

matt the man · Sep 14, 2006, 08:03 PM // 20:03

ok i understand blitz

xtc_blitz · Sep 15, 2006, 01:42 AM // 01:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Aro

Most of the exp groups I run with usually only use 2 W/A's. It just gives room for more damage. 4 Monks or 3 + 1 Rt is common, though the recent update may hurt spirits a fair amount (shouldn't be too bad). Decreased to a smaller party the normal 1 healer to 2 others works fine. Leaving room for a second nec, ele, or a ranger (easy on the traps, they can break aggro).

I've been wanting to take my E down there as a healing E/Mo but nobody ever wanted me in the group (wonder how much prodigy hurts after the change). Was also thinking a N/R with a pet may be interesting. Portable body generator, profane right next to kanaxai could be mean, health degen always helps, or healing well for the tanks for longer tanking.

There are of course many builds that are possible for the deep. I just find that for 9 man deep, this works for me. Well of Profane isn't really needed for kanaxai since shivers + icy weapons keeps him from casting anything anyways.

I've only been in one PuG group with rangers, and it was kind of a joke, very thankful that group didn't make it to the oni's cuz it would have been a mess. Sacrificing a W/A to take an extra monk is kind of a waste of a good tank. Especially when you want to start breaking the 60 minute mark, then you need to break off into Monk/Tank/Caster groups towards the end to move faster.

Trapping in the deep isn't very practical either, since you drop 1 or two traps and that's it, unless you're looking at taking a few hours to make it through, in which case, trapping can be usefull i guess.

This of course is only my opinion.

Vyral · Sep 15, 2006, 09:43 PM // 21:43

The changes to the Rit skills concerned our group a bit, as the increase in casting cost of both shelter and recuperation were enormous. However, because of the decreased casting times, it was theorized that Ritual Lord wasn't quite necessary anymore. Our primary Rit tweaked his build a bit, and took Wanderlust instead of Rit Lord. I'm not sure what his energy levels were, but he didn't complain about energy or ask for battery once the entire run, and the build seemed even more effective than before (aspects went down so fast it was almost silly).

We also dropped the ele on our last run and went with 2 SS, I think both using the same build. It seemed clear that this 9 man build was even more effective than our previous build. Creatures went down faster than before, and with absolutely no risk of scatter. On tonights run, I'm going to tinker with the 2 SS build to optimize skill sets to minimize redundancy when undesirable.

Once again, I want to emphasize that specific builds are not the key. Sucessfully performing specific duties is the key. It seems that in the low party size Warren groups, each person needs to have a specific skillset, without which the group will fail. This is not necessarily the case with the Deep. Most classes have a few key skills and the rest is tailored to style, as long as their duties can be fulfilled. The single SS necro of our old 9 man groups had the least laxity and the most duties to perform (primary damage dealer, damage mitigation, interrupts, battery, corpse removal). If we move to a dual Necro build, this might allow some more flexibility.

Other things I'm considering are switching the primary Ritualist to a N/Rt or Ra/Rt running spirits. With the new high casting costs, the benefits of soul reaping or expertise may outweigh the benefits of Spawning Power... I'll have to play with it a bit. Ra/Rt would also allow the use of Serpeants Quickness, which may or may not be useful...

pelmensilverwolf · Oct 04, 2006, 04:03 AM // 04:03

Heh.. just had to brag a teeny bit.. was invited by an excellent run group for a 6 man deep run tonite.. had loads of fun even if I didn't get a drop.. It's a challenge, but far more enjoyable than 12 man groups that whine and squabble at each other all the time, or just plain don't listen..

Shiva Darkarts · Oct 04, 2006, 04:18 PM // 16:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vyral

It seems my friend is a bit excitable.

Anyway, running the Deep with a 6 man team was quite exciting. For those of you wondering about the builds, well, there really isn't anything "super secret" about them. They're fairly standard ideas tweaked to individual styles. As Lich mentioned, most of us in our group can run multiple professions. I've managed to complete my Rit and now have run Necro, Warrior, Monk, Ele, and Rit in our 9 man team. We don't even necessarily run the same builds as another member of the crew would in the same slot.

The most important thing is that we've been doing 1-2 runs almost nightly since shortly after Factions came out. Originally we started in 12 man PuG groups to get the hang of the run. Eventually, we started making 12 man "mostly" friend groups. Then a few of us started talking about what was needed and what wasn't. The most obvious things that weren't needed was a BiP, a 4th monk, and more than 1 ele. So the 9 man group was born.

As Lich mentioned, we've done the run enough times that each person knows what everyone else should be doing at any given time. Our general knowledge of the run and confidence in each other is more important to successfully completing the run than most anything else.

My advice for anyone else that wants to run The Deep is this... start running with friends if you can, or in a PuG that seems fairly organized. Whenever you make a run, note down the names of those that seemed to know what they were doing, and did well during the run. Then, when you start forming your next team, see if those same people are available and want to run again. Eventually, you'll build up a list of names and can form regular teams. Once you get a group of competent and reliable teammates, you're gold.

Anyway, i've got a screenshot of the victory too... I'm not going to bother blacking out my build.

Very nice Vyral! Would like to know what type of shield that is on the screen shot. Nice looking shield. GJ on the run

XvArchonvX · Oct 04, 2006, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiva Darkarts

Very nice Vyral! Would like to know what type of shield that is on the screen shot. Nice looking shield. GJ on the run

The shield he has equipped is an Exalted Aegis. The shield he has in his fourth weapon slot is a Zodiac Shield.

Exalted Aegis:
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Exalted_Aegis

Zodiac Shield:
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Zodiac_Shield

Vyral · Oct 04, 2006, 11:35 PM // 23:35

Actually, what I have equipped in my 4th slot is my bow... at the time an Elswyth's Longbow. I use the Exalted Aegis (-5dmg20%/+30hp) because both mods are unconditional and I'm not consistently in a stance or enchanted during the run.

We enjoyed having ya, Pelmen. I have to say I'm still impressed with the blocking done in the 2nd Aspect of Depletion room, against the nightmares. We were a bit skittish about taking an unknown tank with us into 6 man (especially after the abortive 12 man PuG a few of us had just experienced) but you acquitted yourself more than admirably.

A quick update about the Rit. Our runs have convinced me even further that the Rit is an indispensable member of any Deep team, 6 man, 9 man, or even 12 man. After the last skill update, we dropped Recuperation and Shelter from the build, and added Shadowsong and Painful Bond. Our primary ritualist can now solo each of the 4 opening rooms. In the aforementioned 12 man PuG, our Rit went into room 2 and, against the initial screams of outrage from the rest of the team, cleared the entire room. Amusingly enough, room 2 was the only one able to clear. The ritualist does significant damage to Kanaxai at the end, and his dying spirits provides battery to the Necro, allowing him to keep up Shivers against Kanaxai, and provide frequent Blood Ritual to the 2 monks, who need to cast Heal Party much more frequently than in a 9 man or 12 man group. Disenchantment works in the rare instances that Kana gets a Nightmare Refuge up. Shadowsong provides damage mitigation by blinding Kanaxai. Wanderlust does KD. We're watching Gaze of Fury, the Nightfall spirit, with interest--pondering whether it might be a potential replacement for Disenchantment (Nightmare Refuge almost never slips through and Gaze is cheaper, casts faster, and recharges faster).

In terms of Monking, the Nightfall Elite skill "Light of Deliverance" shows enormous potential for use in the Deep. Healing Seed continues to prove that it is indispensable.

krypt1200 · Oct 05, 2006, 04:34 AM // 04:34

Could someone post classes needed, preferred skills and attribute points so we can test this out please.

Vyral · Oct 05, 2006, 05:29 AM // 05:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by krypt1200

Could someone post classes needed, preferred skills and attribute points so we can test this out please.

Actually, we have posted the information, in general, earlier in the thread. And, as I've said many times, specific builds are much less important than understanding the run and the people you're running with.

However to summarize, our 6 man team uses 2 tanks, 2 monks, 1 rit, 1 necro.

The tank build we use can be seen in my previous screenshot. Things the tank does: Aggro, KD, Interrupt, Deal damage to certain enemy groups.

The monk build is almost completely to the comfort/desire of the monk. Indispensable skills include Healing Seed, Heal Party, Rebirth. In 6 man, energy management is key, as is coordination with the other party members.

The rit is an offensive spirit build. Boon of Creation, Painful Bond, Spirits...

The necro satisfies many tasks: Damage, Corpse denial, Battery, Interrupting, Damage mitigation. SS, RH, Shivers, Well of Blood, Blood Ritual.

Attributes are as you want them. They're either obvious or not overwhelmingly important.

Anybody trying to take a cookie cutter 6 man build to run with a PuG will almost definitely fail. Get some experience with the run, and go with people you trust and you might succeed.

Our best time with 6 man is down to 81 minutes.

kratimas · Oct 05, 2006, 07:44 AM // 07:44

Does Kanaxai have anyting to take away (remove) Dazed? The only reason I ask is bacause you could take a Ranger with Braodhead Arrow and keep Kanaxai dazed the entire fight which would allow the Necro to not have to worry about Spinal Shivers and also allow your warriors to use any type of weapon they wanted too. (ie wouldn't have to be cold damage to int everything).

Just a thought.

Krat

xtc_blitz · Oct 05, 2006, 02:24 PM // 14:24

That's an interesting thought Kratimas, but taking a Ranger to do 1 thing in the deep, is a waste of a character slot. Rangers can't really do much else for us in the deep, and we'd have to ditch either a tank or a monk to do it. Rangers can't tank to well, and they don't make the best monks either...

dejsav · Oct 05, 2006, 03:09 PM // 15:09

are ok these skills for Ritualist?

Pain, Blood Song, Shadowsong and Painful Bond

ritualist must do only damage or also must protect?

thanks

Vyral · Oct 05, 2006, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by kratimas

Does Kanaxai have anyting to take away (remove) Dazed? The only reason I ask is bacause you could take a Ranger with Braodhead Arrow and keep Kanaxai dazed the entire fight which would allow the Necro to not have to worry about Spinal Shivers and also allow your warriors to use any type of weapon they wanted too. (ie wouldn't have to be cold damage to int everything).Krat

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lichang

...but taking a Ranger to do 1 thing in the deep, is a waste of a character slot. Rangers can't really do much else for us in the deep, and we'd have to ditch either a tank or a monk to do it. Rangers can't tank to well, and they don't make the best monks either...

Actually, Rangers can tank pretty well, with the assortment of stances they have, but that's not really the point here. Switching from a Warrior to a Ranger as tank would force you to give up a lot, for a gain that is really meaningless. Shivers is a very useful skill to have against Kanaxai, but it is not absolutely necessary. We have successfully defeated Kanaxai after our only necro got hit with a 007 error, by using Distracting Blow. If the Necro ever needs to save a bit of energy, they can simply let the tanks know and things will proceed. Shivers just makes it that much easier, and why make things hard if you don't need to.

Vyral · Oct 11, 2006, 04:52 AM // 04:52

Had a new first for our 6 man run, though we were all wondering when it would finally happen. Our Ritualist got a triple drop--all 3 Kanaxai greens dropped for him.

For any specific person, the chances of that happening would be 1/216 in 6 man. The overall chance of it happening are only 1/36 (1/1 chance that the 1st green will drop for someone, 1/6 chance that the 2nd will drop for the same, and another 1/6 chance that the 3rd will drop for the same).

Crush · Oct 11, 2006, 11:56 AM // 11:56

well, the only thing i must say it's that you're lucky to have many friends to do runs with

dejsav · Oct 11, 2006, 12:29 PM // 12:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crush

well, the only thing i must say it's that you're lucky to have many friends to do runs with

yeah

xtc_blitz · Oct 11, 2006, 03:42 PM // 15:42

I'm sure you have friends/guild mates out there you can do runs with. It's just a matter of getting to know The Deep and getting good at it. We do it atleast once a night, sometimes 2 times if we can get an early enough start, and have been doing this for quit sometime. As Vince stated before, this group started out as a 12 man group, then 9, and now 6.

Ask some guildies/friends online to help out, and eventually you'll get a steady group.

If you are trying to get your Guildies/Friends to help out, and you're short one or 2, you can send me a whisper online, and if i'm not busy, i can come help out.